Prabhudas Gandhi talks with ...

> Peter Rühe - March 12, 1986 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe about his times with Mahatma Gandhi and his own life - March 12, 1986 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe - March 15, 1986 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Benjamin Pütter about his life with Mahatma Gandhi, Episode 1 of 4 - Pardi, September 1988

> Benjamin Pütter about his life with Mahatma Gandhi, Episode 2 of 4 - Pardi, September 1988

> Benjamin Pütter about his life with Mahatma Gandhi, Episode 3 of 4 - Pardi, September 1988

> Benjamin Pütter about his life with Mahatma Gandhi, Episode 4 of 4 - Pardi, September 1988

> Peter Rühe about the German book M.K. Gandhi - My life is my message - December 27, 1988 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe - December 28, 1988 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe - January 5, 1989 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe - December 20, 1990 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe about the name giving of his daughter Kamla - December 20, 1990 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Amba Gandhi, Yogesh Goda and Peter Rühe about their marriage and life - December 22, 1990 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot (largely Gujarati)

> Eli Sarid about his life - January 3, 1991 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe about the relation of Phoenix settlers to native South Africans - January 29, 1992 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe about the transcript of an interview Peter Rühe took at December 22, 1990 with Amba Gandhi on their marriage - March 1994 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

> Peter Rühe - March 1994 - Wardha (snippets of a conversation)

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:46:24, 11d-A-19860312-opt) - Transcript (11d-Prabhudas Gandhi-19860312-A-opt-t), unfinished

Part 2: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:46:35, 11d-B-19860312-opt) - Transcript (11d-Prabhudas Gandhi-19860312-B-opt-t), unfinished

Part 1: Prabhudas recounts a story about the origin of the word "Satyagraha," explaining it was chosen after a competition to find a Gujarati term for "passive resistance". The term "passive resistance" was considered insufficient because it was an English word and the movement was "active non-violent". Prabhudasbhai's uncle Maganlal suggested "Sadagraha," but it was corrected to "Satyagraha," with "satya" meaning "truth". Prabhudas also mentions Mr. Pollack, described as a fast friend of his father and uncle. A letter or diary extract is discussed, in which Prabhudasbhai's father expressed discomfort with the "free" behavior of Mr. and Mrs. Pollack, which was a new thing for an Indian at the time. This diary extract reveals that the father began to eat his meals separately due to this and because he disliked sitting at a table where meat was being eaten. Prabhudas confirms that these dietary habits and social customs are still maintained. He also discusses his own writing, mentioning a Gujarati book of 644 pages and a separate Hindi version that they were instructed to write differently by the publisher. He also abridged a book for a school edition and another version was selected by Devadas Gandhi for foreign audiences. Prabhudas recounts that Gandhi, just before his assassination, told him he would be murdered and urged him to continue his work on propagating Khadi and dealing with Hindu-Muslim tensions. He describes the brutal violence that occurred during the partition of India, where innocent people were killed out of revenge. He concludes that the treatment of Black people in South Africa today is even worse than what Indians experienced a century ago, describing the modern situation as "inhuman".

Part 2: Prabhudas discusses his experiences and the values of the Indian freedom struggle. He recounts a discriminatory incident in a Durban, South Africa, tram where he and his family, including his uncle Maganlal Gandhi and Manilal Gandhi, were beaten and thrown off for sitting in the "whites-only" section. This event reinforced his opposition to the dishonoring of lower-class people. Gandhi also describes the role of women in the struggle, noting that they were crucial in encouraging strikers and were even among the first sixteen satyagrahis sent by Gandhiji.

He details his own marriage, which was arranged by Mahatma Gandhi to promote national unity and was a non-traditional ceremony. His wife, a freedom fighter herself, was a Gujarati who was educated in Hindi and came from a well-to-do background, but she embraced the difficult, spartan lifestyle of the ashram. The marriage highlights the personal sacrifices made for the cause. Prabhudas Gandhi reflects on the spirit of the movement, emphasizing that they were prepared to suffer for India's honor, not to kill, but to die for their beliefs. He concludes by expressing his view that the situation has worsened over time, stating that people who were once only beaten are now killed.

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Part 2: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:43:18 11a-B-19860313) - Listen (edited, length: 00:43:18, AUOHEN0330)

Part 1+2: Listen (edited, length: 01:22:06, AUOHEN0320) - Transcript (WRDOTR0070)

Prabhudas Gandhi was born on December 4, 1901, around the time his relative, Mahatma Gandhi, first returned to India from South Africa. Prabhudas's father worked as a clerk for Gandhi, assisting him in his law practice. Prabhudas's mother, meanwhile, was with Kasturba, Gandhi's wife. When Gandhi had to go to South Africa, he took Prabhudas's uncle with him.

Prabhudas was brought up in the Phoenix Settlement in South Africa, where he was raised on Gandhian principles. The education at the settlement was different from normal schools, with no exams or degrees. Instead, students learned reading and writing for a few hours a day and then worked in the gardens, fields, and printing press. This labor-based education was a long day, but Prabhudas and the other children enjoyed it and felt no pressure or fear. Beating was not used as a punishment after the satyagraha policy was introduced.

Prabhudas's parents often invoked Gandhi's name to teach him good behavior and cleanliness. He said that he was the first grandson to call Gandhi "Bapu". The "Gandhian culture," emphasizing a simple life and high thinking, was a central tenet of their upbringing. This philosophy was heavily influenced by the writings of Tolstoy, whose books were used as textbooks.

Prabhudas believes that the Bhagavad Gita is the source of spiritual thought and his guiding book, and he recites it twice a month. He received a medal in 1972 from the government for his selfless work for India's independence. The conversation also touched upon the Indian calendar and the nutritional benefits of gur (molasses) over white sugar.

Listen (raw audio, length: 00:46:03, Prabhudas_Gandhi_19860315_01) - Transcript, unfinished

Prabhudas discusses his decision to stop drinking tea, a habit he had from a young age. He initially gave up tea following Mahatma Gandhi's example, who also quit the beverage. However, he cemented his resolve after visiting tea plantations in Assam and witnessing the severe exploitation of the laborers, which he described as a form of slavery. He wrote an essay titled "Taking tea is as equal to drink blood of people". He continues to drink coffee, which he considers a medicinal remedy for stomach issues, a practice he learned from a doctor in Ahmedabad.

Gandhi also reflects on modern society, contrasting his past experience of poverty, where he could still afford fruits and milk, with the current economic situation. He expresses concern about rising prices and the pressure on everyone, including the elderly and young, to earn money. He feels that society has become "crushing" and is run by a small percentage of people who live in luxury, while the majority struggle. He argues that unlike the past, when people were united against foreign rulers, today's public is confused and has no clear vision.

Prabhudas Gandhi talks with Benjamin Pütter about his life with Mahatma Gandhi, Episode 1 of 4 - Pardi, September 1988

Listen (raw audio, length: 00:37:31, 11g-B-198809) - Listen (edited, length: 00:53:56, AUOHEN0360) - Transcript (WRDOTR0073)

Prabhudas Gandhi, who was educated by Mahatma Gandhi, at the ashram, recounts his experiences. He describes a life centered around practical work and spiritual discipline, where he was taught by Gandhi and other elders in the ashram. The daily routine involved grinding grain, fetching water, sweeping, and preparing vegetables, along with lessons in subjects like mathematics, Gujarati, and Sanskrit.

Prabhudas explains that Gandhi emphasized non-violence, fearlessness, and the concept of swadeshi (using things made in one's own country). The biggest struggle, however, was overcoming untouchability. When Gandhi brought untouchables into the ashram to teach weaving, many people, including family members, left because they refused to live or eat with them.

This decision caused a rift, and the ashram lost financial support from people in the city. Despite the hardships, Prabhudas stayed, feeling more connected to Gandhi's teachings and the ashram life. He also recalls Gandhi's lesson on detachment from the physical body, telling his followers that the body is not permanent, like a bubble. Prabhudas mentions that Gandhi was honored with the Kaisar-i-Hind medal for his work in South Africa. He concludes by emphasizing the lessons of being fearless, "money less," and not lazy.

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:48:00, 11h-A-198809) 

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Part 1+2: Listen (edited, length: 02:11:46, AUOHEN0370) - Transcript (WRDOTR0074)

Prabhudas Gandhi recounts his early life and his time in the Phoenix Settlement in South Africa. He explains that the name "Phoenix" was chosen by Gandhi based on the Greek story of a bird that burns itself to ashes and is reborn, symbolizing their aim to sacrifice themselves for a new, better society. The settlement, established around 1904, was on a 100-acre plot near the Phoenix railway station in Natal. Prabhudas describes Gandhi's commitment to self-reliance, with each person cultivating an acre of land without machinery, and his strict financial policy where no one was to earn more than three pounds per month. He also details Gandhi's deep commitment to spirituality, his study of various religions like the Bible and Koran, and his encouragement to attend church. Prabhudas shares that Gandhi's first published book was a Gujarati translation of John Ruskin's "Unto This Last," which he titled "Sarvodaya". This concept, meaning "the welfare of all," became a central tenet of his philosophy. The education in the settlement was a basic, hands-on model, with Gandhi teaching subjects like writing and the Gita, while also training them to endure hardship, such as working in the heat, to prepare for jail life. Prabhudas believes this basic education, along with the principles of Sarvodaya and Satyagraha, formed the foundation of Gandhian culture. He also recalls Gandhi's departure from South Africa after a farewell tour in 1914, and his promise to return to India to work for swaraj (self-rule).

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Part 1+2: Listen (edited, length: 02:15:36, AUOHEN0380) - Transcript (WRDOTR0075)

Prabhudas Gandhi recounts his life with Mahatma Gandhi ("Bapu"), offering an intimate look into the development of Gandhi's philosophies and the daily life at his ashrams. Prabhudas was raised in this environment and considers the experiences his true education.

Prabhudas first discusses the founding of the Phoenix Settlement in Natal, South Africa, around 1904. Initially called a "settlement" rather than an "ashram", the name "Phoenix" was chosen by Gandhi after his uncle suggested an Indian name. Gandhi explained that the name was inspired by the Greek myth of the phoenix, a bird that immolates itself only to be reborn from its own ashes, symbolizing a new life emerging from sacrifice. Gandhi's vision for the community was rooted in the idea of "high thinking and simple living".

The settlement, located on 100 acres of land that Gandhi purchased, was designed to be a self-sufficient community. Prabhudas recalls that Gandhi moved the printing press for his newspaper, 

Indian Opinion, from the city to the settlement to promote a more economical and simple lifestyle. To ensure a truly communal and humble way of life, Gandhi limited the monthly salary for all residents, including Prabhudas's father, to no more than three pounds per month.

Prabhudas also vividly describes Gandhi's political activism and the satyagraha (civil disobedience) movement. He mentions the struggles against discriminatory laws, particularly the three-pound tax imposed on Indian laborers. Prabhudas highlights the immense sacrifices made by the community, including the first group of women—which included his mother and Kasturba Gandhi—who were arrested for protesting a law that invalidated their marriages. He emphasizes that this non-violent resistance, where people endured beatings without fighting back, was a core part of their "Indian civilization".

The interview touches on Gandhi's departure from South Africa in 1914 to work for India's independence, a mission that Prabhudas and other boys wanted to be part of. Prabhudas concludes by sharing his final lesson from Gandhi: to continue the work of khadi and to remain brave. He considers himself incredibly "fortunate" to have grown up as one of "Bapu's experiment models" for education, which included not just book lessons, but physical labor and a simple lifestyle.

Listen (raw audio, length: 00:33:30, 11j-A-198809) - Listen (edited, length: 00:48:03, AUOHEN0385) - Transcript (WRDOTR0076)

Prabhudas Gandhi recounts his experiences as a follower of Mahatma Gandhi, beginning with a non-violent labor strike in Ahmedabad in 1918. He describes how Gandhi led the effort, which included a fast to settle the dispute and resulted in a successful, non-violent labor union. Prabhudas also details the aftermath, including the Jallianwala Bagh riots of 1919 and Gandhi's call for 40 people to be ready to sacrifice their lives through non-violence.

During this period, ashram members like Prabhudas and his family were trained to be Gandhi's "soldiers," working to produce their own cloth and aid famine victims. Prabhudas shares a personal anecdote about confronting Gandhi for sending his elderly father to work in a famine-stricken area, to which Gandhi replied that his father, and even Gandhi himself, could not rest until India was free. Gandhi also demanded that Prabhudas's father give all personal funds to the ashram, leaving nothing for his sons, to which Prabhudas agreed. Finally, Prabhudas clarifies his familial relationship to Gandhi, explaining that Gandhi was his father's uncle.

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:48:03, 11l-A-19881227) - Transcript, unfinished

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Part 1: Prabhudas is explaining various photos and artifacts, including a sign with footprints and a lotus, which he identifies as "Charan Kamal," or "lotus feet," a symbol of reverence for God. He also discusses a map of pre-independence India, distinguishing between British-administered areas and princely states. Peter then goes into detail about the Gandhi family tree, clarifying relationships and names. He mentions that his research for this family tree was extensive, and he even traveled to gather information. A key point he makes is that a widely circulated photo believed to be of Gandhi's mother, Putlibai, is actually not her, but rather the wife of Gandhi's uncle, Manakarban. He explains that women from that era, including Gandhi's mother, rarely had their photos taken. The conversation concludes with a discussion of the school Gandhi attended, which Peter also visited.

Part 2: Prabhudas provides commentary on various photos and documents. The discussion covers Mahatma Gandhi's early life and activities, including his education at Alfred High School (formerly Kathiawad High School), where he had "good marks" in English, arithmetic, and algebra. It is noted that the school was renamed Alfred High School in 1895, after Gandhi had attended.

The interview also delves into Gandhi's life in South Africa, including his time at the Phoenix Settlement and the Tolstoy Farm. The Phoenix Settlement was 100 acres, while the Tolstoy Farm was a temporary camp for the families of jailed Satyagrahis during the Second Satyagraha struggle. It was not a permanent institution and was owned by Hermann Kallenbach, who rented it for the cause. The conversation also references several photos, including one with members of the Phoenix Settlement and another with a drawing of Leo Tolstoy. Peter also mentions a letter from Tolstoy to Gandhi.

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:47:48, 11p-A-19881228) - Transcript, unfinished

Part 2: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:47:54, 11p-B-19881228) - Transcript, unfinished

Part 1: Prabhudas discusses various aspects of his life and his experiences at the Phoenix Settlement in South Africa. He recalls how the settlement, inspired by John Ruskin's ideas, encouraged a self-sufficient lifestyle where residents were both farmers and laborers. A key focus of his memory is the "three-pound tax" imposed on Indians in South Africa, which required every adult Indian to pay three pounds if they stayed in the country after their work agreement finished. This tax was considered a heavy burden, as it was more than the annual wages of many laborers at the time.

Prabhudas also touches on Mahatma Gandhi's use of fasting as a form of non-violent resistance and moral pressure, recalling an instance where Bapu fasted to express his disapproval of a lie told by a child. He also talks about the inspirations for some of Mahatma Gandhi's philosophies, such as passive resistance from Thoreau, and the importance of being a "perfect Hindu" from Raj Chandra. He notes that he has written a book that details these events and philosophies but is struggling to continue writing due to his age and a lack of assistance. He laments the modern-day focus on competition and career ambitions, which he feels has overshadowed the self-sufficient, communal values of the past.

Part 2:  Prabhudas provides details about Mahatma Gandhi's life and the settlements he founded. He recalls that the Tolstoy Farm community integrated into the Phoenix Settlement, which in Gujarati was called "Phoenix Sonsta," meaning "institution". Prabhudas explains that the idea of an ashram, or community, at Phoenix was modeled on the simple, pure life of the Quakers. However, he notes that the spiritual vows of truth and non-violence were a later development, and were more prominent in the ashrams in India.

Prabhudas also discusses various individuals in photographs, including barrister John Roypan, who was an Indian Christian born in South Africa. He talks about how Gandhi's prayer meetings would include songs for people of all faiths, such as a hymn for Christians and a song for Parsis, to demonstrate that different religions were not separate from one another. He also recalls that Gandhi's simplified dress, a lungi, was adopted after a historic march as a sign of solidarity with laborers. The document concludes with a discussion about the land for the Sabarmati Ashram and the timeline of Gandhi's change in attire.

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:47:23, 11k-A-19890105) - Listen (edited, length: 00:48:03, AUOHEN0386) - Transcript (WRDOTR0077)

Part 2: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:47:00 (11k-B-19890105) - Transcript, unfinished

Part 1: They discuss various historical events and figures related to Mahatma Gandhi. Prabhudas mentions that "Bapu" (Gandhi) stopped wearing a turban around February 17, 1917, after which he wore a Kashmiri cap. Prabhudas recalls being with Ba (Kasturba Gandhi) and Bapu in Calcutta and then Bapu going to Patna in 1917. He also speaks about meeting Tagore and weaving something for him during a conference in Ahmedabad, though he doesn't remember if Tagore used it.

The conversation also touches upon a period when Bapu was in the hospital and later recovered at Juhu beach in Bombay in 1924. Prabhudas notes that he was present at the Ramgarh Congress in March 1940, which was the last one Bapu attended. Later, they discuss the deathbed of Kasturba Gandhi at Aga Khan palace, where Kanu was allowed to take a photo. They also talk about Bapu's decision to make Jawaharlal Nehru, not Raja, the first Prime Minister, because Nehru was more connected internationally. The conversation concludes with a discussion about Jamnalal Bajaj being an adopted son, not a step-brother of Radhakrishna Bajaj.

Part 2: Prabhudas discusses various figures and events in Indian history. He clarifies that while Radhakrishna was a real son, he was much younger than Jamnalal Bajaj, who was adopted by a merchant named Bacharaj. The Bajaj Company was named after Jamnalal Bajaj, who was known for being the first person in Barwadi to receive Bapu's (Gandhi's) message. He came to Gandhi in 1921, offering all his property and money. Bajaj was a big merchant who sold foreign cloth, but he had a change of heart and boycotted foreign cloth after meeting Gandhi. He then started dealing exclusively in Indian goods. He was also the first to establish an Indian sugar mill.

The conversation then shifts to the state of India, with Gandhi expressing concern over the government's decision to make English compulsory for college entrance exams. He believes this will disadvantage villagers and cause Indian languages, including Sanskrit, to be forgotten. He uses an anecdote about a railway ticket refund to illustrate how English speakers are given preference over Hindi speakers. He also expresses concern that the push for computers is being used as a justification for promoting English, despite computers being available in other languages like Arabic and Hebrew.

Prabhudas also shares his memory of seeing Muhammad Ali Jinnah at a Congress meeting in 1920. Jinnah insisted on calling Gandhi "Mr. Gandhi" instead of "Mahatma Gandhi". He describes Rajaji as a very good lawyer and writer who was second only to Bapu in Indian politics, but had a different view on the Partition of India. The conversation concludes with a brief mention of Thakarbapa, who was a Maharashtrian leader of the Harijan community and worked with Bapu to uplift the depressed classes.

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:47:00, 11n-A-19901220) - Transcript, unfinished

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Part 1: Prabhudas provided a summary of his family history and his research on Mohandas Gandhi (also referred to as Bapu) to Peter. He stated that a photograph commonly identified as Bapu's mother, Putlibai, is likely not her, as the woman in the photo has no physical resemblance to Bapu or his sister, who Prabhudas knew personally. He believes the photo is more likely of Motiba, the mother of his uncle, Maneklal, and grandmother of a woman named Vinodini, because her dress was the same style as his grandmother's.

Prabhudas also spoke about the difficulty of life in Bapu's ashram. He explained that in 1928, after his uncle Maganlal Gandhi passed away, Bapu considered changing the name of the Satyagraha Ashram to Udyog Pandit because he felt the members were not living up to the high ideals of Satyagraha. He also recounted how Bapu convinced his father, Chaganlal Gandhi, to give up his personal wealth to the ashram fund and live a life of "no possession". Although Prabhudas advocated for his aging father to get some rest, Bapu insisted that one must not sit silent just because they are old.

Prabhudas also revealed that Bapu's family, including his grandfather, fully supported him and his work. His grandfather, who was the wisest and eldest member of the family, instructed his sons to obey whatever Bapu asked them to do. However, Prabhudas noted that not everyone was willing to follow Bapu, citing his son Harilal as an example of someone who left the ashram because of the strictness. Harilal's decision to leave was viewed positively by the interviewer, who believed it demonstrated Bapu's success in teaching self-reliance and the importance of speaking one's mind.

Part 2: Prabhudas discusses his life and experiences, including his time at Bapu's (Mahatma Gandhi's) ashram, which he describes as a "purified" and extended joint family system. Unlike a regular family, members of the ashram were chosen for their shared spirit and desire for a good life. He recounts declining a scholarship to study in London in 1920 because he did not want to leave Bapu. At the time, he was a student at the Sabarmati Ashram, learning and working in khadi, specifically weaving and carding.

He also talks about his writings, including articles for Hindustan Times and children's magazines, as well as a book based on Bapu's life and the philosophy of the Gita. The book, titled "Gita, Gandhi, and Gandhism," is not a translation but an interpretation of the Gita's practical application in the life of the ashram.

The conversation then shifts to his imprisonment during the Quit India Movement. He was arrested in September 1942 and spent nearly three years in Murali prison, where he was held with murderers and kept in solitary confinement for eight to nine months. Despite the harsh conditions, he continued to follow the principles of the ashram, doing tasks like twisting threads since he was denied a charkha.

Listen (raw audio, length: 00:18:04, 11o-A-19901220) - Transcript, unfinished

Prabhudas recounts a story about the naming of Kamla, his first daughter. After Prabhudas was released from jail, his mother came for the baby's birth. His mother took the baby to "Bapu" (a term for Mahatma Gandhi, or a similar revered figure) to have him name her. Bapu wanted to give her a name associated with the untouchables, like "Rubbish". The narrator's mother was not immediately convinced, and the discussion between her and Bapu about the name went on for about a month.

Eventually, Bapu met the family, took the baby onto his lap, and gave her a slice of mandarin. Then someone  suggested the name "Kamla". Bapu asked if anyone in the family had that name, and after confirming no one did, he approved the name. Prabhudas notes that "Kamla" means "lotus" and was also the name of Indira Gandhi's mother. He believes that because Kamla was named by Bapu, she was shaped by his blessing and is considered the "brightest" in the family.

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:48:00, 15b-A-19901222) 

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Part 2: Amba Gandhi discusses the Vedic tradition of the ashram and a wedding that took place there. Kamala, the son of Yamunarayan Bajaj, got married in his father's ashram, abandoning old traditions. At the wedding, Kaka Saheb, a favorite teacher, was asked to handle the ceremony. Although Kaka Saheb felt he had become a sanyasi (saint) and did not want to perform the work, he stood by and gave instructions while a family priest performed the rituals. The ceremony followed a new interpretation of traditional Sanskrit hymns.

After the marriage ceremony, Gandhi asked Bajaj about the expenses. When told the cost was 11 rupees, Gandhi replied that this was too much and that the ceremony should cost no more than one day's income for a person earning one rupee and twenty-five paise per day. Gandhi stayed in the ashram for three weeks before going on a tour. Prabhudas recalls that they did not feel like living in an ashram because they did not have an independent home or family there. He also recounts how Gandhi had encouraged them to get married after they had been living alone for some time.

Prabhudas Gandhi talks with Eli Sarid about his life - January 3, 1991 - Rashtriya Shala, Rajkot

Part 1: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:46:39, 11f-A-19910103) - Listen (edited, length: 00:48:27, AUOHEN0350) - Transcript  (WRDOTR0072)

Part 2: Listen (raw audio, length: 00:16:18, 11f-B-19910103) - Transcript, unfinished

Part 1: Prabhudas Gandhi, the grandnephew of Mahatma Gandhi, discusses his family's relationship with Bapu (Mahatma Gandhi). Prabhudas's grandfather, who was 18 years older than Mahatma Gandhi, was raised in Bapu's house after losing both of his parents by the age of ten. Prabhudas's father worked as a barrister's secretary for Bapu in Rajkot and later as Bapu's assistant and a joint editor for the Gujarati section of the publication Indian Opinion in South Africa. Prabhudas was born in Porbandar but was raised in Rajkot, and at the age of four, he joined the Phoenix settlement in South Africa where his father was a founding member.

In the interview, Prabhudas also describes his interactions with Henry Polak and Hermann Kallenbach. He recalls Kallenbach being a fieldworker and a stout man who was a teacher to his father and uncle, teaching them gardening skills. Kallenbach also assisted Bapu in managing strikers during a march from Durban to Tolstoy Farm. Prabhudas mentions that Kallenbach adopted Bapu's lifestyle, including his dietary changes and simple clothing. Prabhudas details a story about a walking competition between Kallenbach and Prabhudas's uncle, where Kallenbach won by buying a cake from a shop instead of eating the chapattis provided by the ashram. He concludes by stating that Kallenbach was a kind man, but life in the ashram was very difficult.

Part 2: Prabhudas recounts a time when Gandhi insisted that he and all the girls from his school walk 8 miles to see him, despite having already walked part of the way. Gandhi emphasized that walking was essential and that relying on transportation like a "Tonga" (horse-drawn carriage) was a luxury. Prabhudas also recalls an instance in Bombay where Gandhi meticulously taught him how to wash Vallabhbhai Patel's clothes to ensure they were "more white, more clean," an attention to detail he never showed for his own clothes. Prabhudas discusses how he worked for Harijans and weavers, but expresses dissatisfaction with how some of Gandhi's institutions have become "commercialised". He also mentions that he does not engage in parliamentary politics but believes Gandhi's grandson, Rajmohan Gandhi, is on the "pure side" of politics.

Listen (raw audio, length: 00:44:22, 11e-A-19920129) - Listen (edited, length: 00:40:50, AUOHEN340) - Transcript (WRDOTR0071)

In a 1992 interview, Prabhudas Gandhi discusses the Phoenix Settlement's relationship with native Africans. He describes the geographical location of the settlement near Phoenix railway station and mentions the nearby Dube School, a native institution.

Prabhudas recounts instances of interaction, such as Dube's visits to the settlement and Dube School students performing music there. He notes that contact between the children of Phoenix and Dube School was limited, but adults had some interactions, including employing Africans for gardening and selling fruits to passersby.

He clarifies that the Phoenix Settlement aimed for self-sufficiency and was not highly social with native people, although some native boys, like Willy, attended the settlement's school. Prabhudas highlights the language skills of his uncle, Maganlal Gandhi, who could speak Zulu and interacted with natives.

He recalls an instrument played by natives, similar to a violin or accordion, and their singing. Prabhudas also touches upon the relationship between Bapu (Gandhi) and the black community, suggesting Bapu focused on the Asiatic struggle first, believing Africans should fight for themselves.

He mentions that blacks were influenced by the Indians' bravery in enduring suffering but found it difficult to emulate due to their different temperament. Prabhudas recounts Gokhale's visit to Phoenix and Dube School, emphasizing Gokhale's status as Bapu's guru. He also shares an anecdote about Gandhi's fearlessness, comparing it to the Indian custom of not disturbing snakes.

Listen (raw audio, length: 00:47:53 , 11m-A-199403) - Transcript, unfinished

Prabhudas was encouraged by Gandhi to live a life of celibacy and service like Vinoba Bhave. However, after being released from jail, Prabhudas decided to get married, a decision Gandhi supported. The search for a bride fell to Gandhi, and after a potential match was rejected for being "short-tempered," another girl named Amba Devi was found. She had previously vowed to dedicate her life to the nation and not marry, but she accepted the proposal because it offered her the opportunity to live and work at Sevagram Ashram.

Their wedding, which was an inter-provincial marriage, was held on October 18, 1932, at the Mahila Ashram in Wardha. Gandhi incorporated his own principles into the ceremony, changing the traditional seven steps (Saptapadi) and adding a five-sacrifice ritual (Panch Yagna). The wedding was kept simple, with a total cost of 11 rupees, which Gandhi considered too expensive. Before the couple began their new life of service, Gandhi gave them a 40-minute speech and provided a guideline for their future, telling them to live a self-sufficient life in a village and not ask him for money.

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The talk mentions Prabhudas Gandhi and a date, March 1994. It also mentions Vinoba, a poet and a hymn. The text describes a new exhibition called Vinoba Darshan at Gopuri as "very good" and "very well done".